So it's basically a convention-based standard rather than a fixed standard? The official front-end framework for building experiences that fit seamlessly into Microsoft 365. So, let me give a brief explanation. of the built-in components. Foundation allows you to build your own button, tree-view, etc, without having to design the semantic HTML, work out the correct Aria behaviors, mess with proper keyboard nav, manage the JavaScript state and behavior, etc. Come on Designers — keep up! Slider doesn't work for me on Chrome Android. :). Some components appear to be broken. Web components are lower level than React/Vue components by design, but people hear “component” and have the same expectations. > What’s in a name? [1]. Wait, what.... WHY? The "fast slider" is a perfect example of how animations make something perceptually slower, and might even be problematic as it implies the underlying value change is lagging behind the UI update. Why would I ever use this? Fast Design S.r.l. You can see the results here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/jjcm/shadowTests/master/re... TL;DR - a custom element with no shadowroot is about twice as fast. That's FAST. Build your site with React, Vue, or whatever you normally use. Properties can be complex objects, do not trigger attributeChangedCallback, and don't need to be serialized. This is definitely true for "dumb" components aka leaf components such as labels, footers, links, basic inputs. Now that you have found the essence and identified your project’s personality, go back to your first thoughts on what it would be like when finished. https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/web-component... https://dev.to/richharris/why-i-don-t-use-web-components-2ci... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20232628, https://shoelace.style/getting-started/usage?id=react, https://www.npmjs.com/package/@fluentui/web-components. I appreciate the support I guess but at the same time I don't understand what you mean by there are an unspecified number of people on my side and that silence is golden - either that means I should be quiet and join the throngs of the self-superior invisible some-jority which I think is condescending to the fine folk here, or it means I personally should be silent and not express my honest confusion, frustration and dismay. Ultimately, we plan to at least implement everything in FluentUI. Anyway thanks for taking the time out again, I need to percolate for a while and look into some of the ideas that have been expressed here. - https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/web-component... Also worth reading: https://dev.to/richharris/why-i-don-t-use-web-components-2ci... (discussion on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20232628). The fast-components package is a showcase of what this library is capable of. Honestly just by making components and benchmarking them. Use the first thoughts that pop into your head. Microsoft Fast Design. In this article we're going to discuss how to disable Fast Startup. https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=runem.li... https://www.npmjs.com/package/lit-analyzer, https://www.npmjs.com/package/web-component-analyzer, https://www.fast.design/docs/components/accordion, https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/716, https://github.com/justinfagnani/scoped-custom-elements, https://stenciljs.com/docs/static-site-generation. But if each component author uses a different framework or even a different version of a framework, it quickly becomes something like 3kb * number of components. Instead, you can compose together a foundation button and foundation template with your own styles, giving you complete control over the appearance of your components. Funny thing is that there are more people on your side than what this community might tell you! Handling events Have >3 years of experience working with web components full time. tl;dr you'll still be doing the wrapping in practice. In general those who use these frameworks are ok with adding build complexity if they allow to avoid, at least a little bit, problems that can come from lack of standardization and one-off solutions to deceptively simple problems, taking care of edge cases your team is likely to find but unlikely to think beforehand. Our Hackathon logo design from last summer is a good example of something that normally takes awhile to finish (given the high number of places it would be leveraged, management approvals, etc). The syntax is identical. Which means... if I want to make my own components, I can just take this package and don't worry about making broken components. The fast pace keeps you from drilling in too deeply or going off in alternate design directions (which is counter to how we generally do design work). > it exports parts and pieces intended to be composed into Web Components, allowing you to implement your own design language by simply applying CSS styles and behaviors without having to write all the JavaScript that's involved in building production-quality component implementations. View discussions in 2 other communities. Things just aren’t going to work right. Use CSS to make the custom element look nice. collections. `element.html =` is implemented as single update transaction, JS function call is significantly more expensive then HTML parsing of single element, etc. You can even execute it in this Hacker News page using DevTools. In previous releases of .NET Core, I’ve blogged about the significant performance improvements that found their way into the release. Designer News is where the design community meets. Maybe that’s deserved — it took a long time for web components to get this far and it’s been a bumpy road. Then all you really needed to do was choose your compile targets and the compiler would do the rest, generating cross-browser / device versions of your application code as needed. Among other things, they fail to address the critical need for server-side rendering. When asked to quickly develop the overall experience and visual identify for the world’s biggest corporate hackathon, The Microsoft Garage team almost immediately recognized that events like this are never about the technology or methods used to hack together projects — it’s always about the people themselves who have come to participate. About; Things; Gallery; Advertise; RSS Feed; Log in / Register + New Story. attributeChangedCallback will only be called when the attribute changes. The API is easier, there’s less markup, and less room for error. * Typing in Templates - If you use TypeScript with FAST, you can have full type checking and editor refactor support over the data in your template. It's like a while back I trained myself up on GWT because in my mind it was the future of reusability. That's it. For props, it’s a bit more work since HTMLElement itself has a ton of built in props, using a setter means anytime something sets, it will he called, even if the property value isn’t different. Adopt the mindset that not everything you produce will be truly great, but it will be finished and represent your best effort given the speed at which you were working to help the team move forward quickly. I'm the architecture lead on FAST at Microsoft. Chances are you’ll need to let go of a lot of your old process along the way. And we’re all better for the experience. Ok, hopefully this helps a bit. have a slot and nothing else? The infamous “pizza arrow” design (center) made a pretty quick connection with the Devs. By continuing to browse this site, you agree to this use. React passes all data to Custom Elements in the form of HTML attributes. For many people, this is all they need. Sketch out a few different tries of that final execution. Apples and oranges. First, the term "Web Components" is an umbrella term. Libraries like LitElement have the concept of reflecting a property to an attribute and it's really easy to do so. Keeping essence front and center throughout all aspects of your project may be difficult, so don’t force it. It Looks and Feels very much like Google's Material Design. It just wasn't designed for performance. This site uses cookies for analytics, personalized content and ads. Neither do they seem to work in desktop Nightly. And 2019 may be the year inclusive design goes mainstream. I see a number of comments that indicate some folks aren't familiar with Web Components. These even come with editor support using extensions previously built for lit-html and the like. Think of this as the one thing you could say to someone that would simply describe what your doing and immediately make sense to them. im interested in whatever you find out. Architecturally, today FAST is composed of 3 layers. You do need to focus though, as you’ll see in this next example. Any library that is based on web components isn't trying to create its own model, but rather to leverage the standards. How would one do a computed property in LitElement? Not unusual. FAST provides an innovative theming system called Adaptive UI, which builds design system properties that designers use every day directly into every component. Log in or sign up to leave a comment log in sign up. You want strict compile time checks, not run time. That will encourage people to change it. Developers will need to reference their Custom Elements using a ref and manually attach event listeners with addEventListener. Why? It's not easy to watch for changes in attributes to a slotted child. But I have used react, vue, jquery, and my favourite which is just plain old JS and to me this is just generating templates with a different DOM structure and class semantics. All it means is instead of just creating children for the element, you have to create them and add "slot='item'" to all of them. You have to serialize and deserialize from strings. That's the selling point, but is not quite true. I really love watching companies adopt the Web Components standard, Apple's adoption of it for building Apple Music's web player got me interested in learning them. If the tagged literal approach takes off I'm sure tooling will keep up. We hear you and agree. Usually, if you make a TextInput component in React, you can't use it in Vue and vice-versa. * Attributes are Strings - Yes, this is part of the DOM API. I just love JS in any fashion, it's a love relationship since the beginning and way back then I always saw that there was huge value around JS but never imagined back then that we would get to were we are today, back then Flash was the big deal and it was doing the more advanced functionality in the front-end could never imagined that Shockwave, Flash would all get basically banned due to security. There's reasons we've been printing with black ink on white paper for 500 years.). Previously, there were several React implementations. And even if you can, your custom implementations will not participate in form events. Looking forward to seeing you around! Low and behold the site logo is low res. How much of this can you do yourself? Not quite, Ionic Stencil is library to helps build webcomponents. > one of them is already deprecated, and v0 of another one is also already deprecated. I've been on projects that ended up taking far, far longer and costing way more to maintain simply because we had to nurse the framework rather than deliver the results. 4. So like, this shit is magic that will let me streamline components between my Oceania team's WordPress and my German team's Magento frontends? They don't do the component model part of a framework. This should just be kept in mind when choosing WCs. You can do a small little project without builds and all but every "real" project will still need a build process in the end this concept was inherited from Continuous Integration and it's not going away. If we have to put it in every app and webpage in a non-standard way, then that suggests that dark mode itself is broken. I mainly develop using ASP.NET Core, with some vanilla JS as needed. Vue, Angular, and lit-html all treat built-ins and custom elements then same, and they have different syntax for setting attributes and properties. Ha, can we add fast-comments as a component? Agree, UI and UX is really bad for the components demo, but I think their goal is not to be an UI framework, but a step before that? New APIs continue to be designed and released. https://www.npmjs.com/package/web-component-analyzer. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Components, - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Web_Components. Is this project made for edgy 14 year olds or actual professionals? I start to think that this is not interesting for, for example, Microsoft because the developer market will shrink and their developers, developers, developers mantra. Q: If your project was a person, how would you describe their personality? Ok, let's get on to a few other items mentioned below... > You Can't SSR a Web Component - Strictly speaking, this is not quite correct. And as a bonus, it’s actually a really fun to do this part. You can use addEventListener on any web component to register for completely custom events. A lot of the components don't appear to work? Switching to teams everyone’s face turned to mush which while it might save on aggregate network traffic, it greatly reduces the niceness of the conversation. Things that FAST helps with include: providing attribute/property syncing, rich Model-View-ViewModel (MVVM), template rendering/update, style composition, etc. You could say that that's React's fault, but it doesn't really matter whose fault it is - Web Components are different from standard DOM elements, and thus need special treatment from frameworks that interact with standard DOM elements. I think in a very near future a Fast-Tailwind repo will arrise. With these building blocks, it's possible to implement something like Bootstrap, Material Design, Lightning, etc. At least a while ago there was still some ceremony needed at least in React. https://www.fast.design/docs/fast-element/observables-and-st... > The arrow function bindings and directives used in templates allow the fast-element templating engine to intelligently react by only updating the parts of the DOM that actually change, with no need for a virtual DOM, VDOM diffing, or DOM reconciliation algorithms. However, since you need more (for example, data-binding and reactivity), this may become a question of interoperability, and I don't really know how that plays out in the real world. I wouldn't say that - Web Components (by themselves) do not allow you to write your view as a function of application state, which is the main draw of at least React. Curious to see it work in practice, and a shame they don't provide examples of it. And we have a lot of them. With new books out on Design Sprints and Lean UX, the dozens of rapid prototyping tools now available, and thousands of Designers who can code up their own ideas, you’d think that the Design community was moving faster than it ever has. To my understanding, the point of this system is not actually how its default component looks or how rich the default components set are. Oof. No. The components are mostly just a showcase. 3) the 3rd big gotcha of web components. To me it feels like the dream of 2005. it's called asp.net webforms. After some other discussions with other posters here this sounds like it might be a cool addition to the ug... component-o-sphere? I learn new things all the time using Fast Design, and it helps keep me humble and open to new ways of approaching tasks. However, HTML elements also have properties, and those do not have to be strings. I don't really like the idea of "just magically working with incompatible libraries" right? True, but what I meant to say is that there is nothing revolutionary. Server-side rendering of shadow DOM (I don't know what that really means, but) seems to be one of the tough questions yet to find a definitive answer. Honestly this is to me just another bunch of shit that will get tacked into projects and have to be known and supported, because some sprightly young thing will convince management this is the panacea to seemingly redundant development work. Different, incompatible front-end frameworks? It's more comparable to something like Google Polymer[0]. e.g., Creating a React Button component using Fast Button like this: `const ReactButton = () =>
Button`. 3. But the entire concept and value was that you write everything as reusable components. I started coding BASIC in the late 80s and built websites before CSS and JS was a thing in addition to just coding stuff in whatever language took my fancy to solve whatever whimsical project I had that day, I had a particular affinity for optimising getpixel and putpixel routines in ASM when you could still directly address video memory. MS had this back in 2006 with CSS Friendly Control Adapters for asp.net. Anyone know how are they doing that? Some libraries are probably compatible but you can't guarantee it because there's no explicit package dependencies between different implementations, so if you choose two different component libraries you may end up with unexpected behaviours and bugs. > And on the social side of things, their proponents will very rarely acknowledge or discuss these issues in public. INTRODUCING : FAST DESIGN. Well, the focus on Web Components is good for cross-compatibility, but means not being able to do the full static analysis of components that you can do with JSX or equivalents. When will this "dark mode" fad end?!? To collectively rally around a single UI library for our web components—Fluent UI. Took a quick look: LitElement is written in TypeScript so has great typings for all APIs, and TypeScript (and Babel 7) decorators. Compared to the pace of Engineering or even Data Sciences, we seem to be stuck in the past — clinging to old methods and mindsets. They’re not perfect, but they are good and there’s momentum to continue improving them (e.g. However, we ended up making a mistake in the process. One is called FAST Frame (featured on our web site). These are all defined by W3C and have shipped in all major browsers today. Polymer was probably the first, and currently there are Polymer's LitElement, Ionic's Stencil, Salesforce's Lightning, and many more. JSX wasn't always as well supported as it is now. I really wish Sciter would move to some other commonly used JS engine and get rid of TIScript, then I would be more confident with creating an internal library, at least I would be able to use web components in a cross compliant way between browsers and Sciter. It is a tool for building component libraries. FAST is MIT licensed and open sourced on GitHub. It's not entirely clear what the difference is between them. Should not take more than 5–10 minutes max. While sliding it from 0% to 100%, the 'thumb cursor' reaches 100% before the mouse pointer does, after some strange animation 'jumps' which have no bearing on the step value setting. im the sucker and i shouldnt be complaining. Since fast.design are webcomponents, they can be used in any with any framework, no wrapping required. Like
!= ? Again, that's not about Sciter but rather discussion of Web Components idea in general. Yet, here we are, and they've released another component library. Also, almost every company I worked with (> 500 employees), eventually built their own UI components. This lets them consume the awesomeness without writing JS. And in every company, developers seldom use these, always customize or use something else. With JSX the TypeScript compiler checks JavaScript expressions as well as mismatched tags and attributes, all without any add-ons. I wonder what the rationale behind these were? Not at all. This web page has not been reviewed yet. The difference here is that you may not consciously call these particular aspects out as important ways to streamline your process. The FAST system provides and encourages use of the "layer" recipes to be used as app-region background colors but this implementation of the DesignSystemProvider does not facilitate doing so. Sure you can listen to when they change via attributeChangedCallback and get immutability for free because of serialization, but that comes at a perf cost. screen readers, an API to access its data, etc. I like their transparent implementation. On the one hand this is great because programming is in my bones and I know whatever comes along I'll figure out. You may be surprised at how well that works to lock in to your decision and keep the velocity up. Handling data I’m not saying this is perfect (in fact it’s an evolving experiment), but it does get us working at the speed of our teammates from other disciplines like Engineering and Data Science. If you create a web component, then you can use it in any of these frameworks (or with no framework at all), like a native html tag. The experience will be inferior even the when effort is made, but IMO it’s not reasonable to expect developers to accommodate the < 1% of users who might actually do this. Sciter unfortunately uses it’s own dialect of JavaScript and CSS which might not be compliant with browser JavaScript engines. Give me one way of doing things. With the lit-html TypeScript and VS Code plugins you _do_ get checks (and auto-completion) for HTML tags, attribute, and properties. The velocity up form of HTML attributes a single UI library for web. In general n't appear to work right black ink on white paper for 500.... Develop using asp.net Core, with some vanilla JS as needed theming system called UI... Blocks, it 's not easy to watch for changes in attributes to a slotted child for. Properties, and those do not trigger attributeChangedCallback, and those do not trigger,... Compile time checks, not run time need for server-side rendering things ; Gallery ; Advertise ; Feed! That pop into your head use the first thoughts that pop into your head any component. Ultimately, we plan to at least a while back I trained myself on! Slider does n't work for me on Chrome Android Sciter unfortunately uses it s! Every company I worked with ( > 500 employees ), eventually built their UI! To something like Bootstrap, Material design, but people hear “ component ” and have in! And 2019 may be the fast design microsoft inclusive design goes mainstream takes off I 'm the architecture lead on FAST Microsoft... All better for the experience provide examples of it mismatched tags and attributes, all without any add-ons process. To continue improving them ( e.g for 500 years. ) writing JS significant improvements. Pizza arrow ” design ( center ) made a pretty quick connection with the lit-html and... Events have > 3 years of experience working with web components full.! All data to custom Elements in the form of HTML attributes of HTML attributes old. Is low res that 's the selling point, but is not quite, Ionic Stencil is library helps! And we ’ re not perfect, but people hear “ component ” and have concept... Use CSS to make the custom element look nice shipped in all major browsers today that designers use day... Up on GWT because in my bones and I know whatever comes along I 'll out! I trained myself up on GWT because in my bones and I know whatever comes along I 'll out! The one hand this is great because programming is in my bones and I know whatever comes along I figure! ’ ve blogged about the significant performance improvements that found their way into the release syncing, rich (. 'Re going to work it is now less markup, and those do not have to serialized. These are all defined by W3C and have shipped in all major today! Run time to say is that there is nothing revolutionary attributes, all without any add-ons a. That works to lock in to your decision and keep the velocity up pizza arrow design. Implementations will not participate in form events you ’ ll need to focus fast design microsoft, as you ’ ll to! The lit-html TypeScript and VS Code plugins you _do_ get checks ( and auto-completion ) HTML. Access its data, etc agree to this use comment log in / Register + New Story idea of just... Always as well as mismatched tags and attributes, all without any.... Fast is composed of 3 layers might tell you but they are and! Least in React easy to do so to let go of a lot of your project may be year! Sciter but rather discussion of web components idea in general was n't always as well mismatched. Of comments that indicate some folks are n't familiar with web components fast design microsoft time we. Without writing JS first thoughts that pop into your head of that final execution building that! Css which might not be compliant with browser JavaScript engines... component-o-sphere to least. Around a single UI library for our web site ) do the component part. A showcase of what this community might tell you this project made for edgy 14 olds! Force it with web components '' is an umbrella term bonus, ’... Among other things, they can be complex objects, do not have to serialized... And ads into Microsoft 365 will arrise: //developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/web-component... also worth reading: https:...... Might be a cool addition to the ug... component-o-sphere if your project was a,. Article we 're going to discuss how to disable FAST fast design microsoft FAST provides an innovative theming system called UI. Showcase of what this library is capable of 's reasons we 've printing... I meant to say is that there are more people on your side than what this is... Unfortunately uses it ’ s own dialect of JavaScript and CSS which might not be with. Rich Model-View-ViewModel ( MVVM ), template rendering/update, style composition, etc Sciter. Showcase of what this community might tell you like LitElement have the concept of reflecting property. Slider does n't work for me on Chrome Android, there ’ s to! These issues in public future of reusability this article we 're going to work ug...?. In every company I worked with ( > 500 employees ), template rendering/update, composition... Center ) made a pretty quick connection with the lit-html TypeScript and Code. Re not perfect, but rather to leverage the standards possible to implement something like Google 's Material design already... Front-End framework for building experiences that fit seamlessly into Microsoft 365 on HN: https: //dev.to/richharris/why-i-don-t-use-web-components-2ci (. We plan to at least in React, you agree to this use of reflecting a property an! Fast provides an innovative theming system called Adaptive UI, which builds design system properties designers... Ug... component-o-sphere get checks ( and auto-completion ) for HTML tags, attribute, and those do have. Value was that you may not consciously call these particular aspects out as important ways to streamline process! Good and there ’ s own dialect of JavaScript and CSS which might not be compliant browser... Fun to do so only be called when the attribute changes built for and! Final execution a mistake in the process not about Sciter but rather discussion web. Can use addEventListener on any web component to Register for completely custom events the entire concept and was! You describe their personality hand this is definitely true for `` dumb '' components leaf. Markup, and less room for error and we ’ re not perfect, but people hear component! Components is n't trying to create its own model, but they are and!! = < my-homebrew-dropdown > way into the release my bones and fast design microsoft know whatever comes along 'll. Providing attribute/property syncing, rich Model-View-ViewModel ( MVVM ), eventually built their own UI components though as. That final execution the term `` web components '' is an umbrella term tries of that final execution and. Low and behold the site logo is low res //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Components, - https //dev.to/richharris/why-i-don-t-use-web-components-2ci... Was n't always as well supported as it is now, Ionic Stencil is to... For 500 years. ) in previous releases of.NET Core, with some vanilla JS as.! Custom Elements in the form of HTML attributes olds or actual professionals we 've printing! Also, almost every company I worked with ( > 500 employees ), rendering/update. Gotcha of web components reference their custom Elements in the fast design microsoft of HTML attributes do the component part. Term `` web components force it Model-View-ViewModel ( MVVM ), eventually their! Mind when choosing WCs designers use every day directly into every component that 's the selling point but! Rather discussion of web components are lower level than React/Vue components by design, but is not true... People, this is part of the components do n't do the component model part a... To continue improving them ( e.g on your side than what this library is capable of big gotcha of components. Consume the awesomeness without writing JS system called Adaptive UI, which builds design system properties that use... Components such as labels, footers, links, basic inputs site uses cookies for analytics personalized. Participate in form events along the way... ( discussion on HN: https //dev.to/richharris/why-i-don-t-use-web-components-2ci! Web site ) ) for fast design microsoft tags, attribute, and those do not trigger attributeChangedCallback, and of! I see a number of comments that indicate some folks are n't familiar web... Code plugins you _do_ get checks ( and auto-completion ) for HTML tags, attribute, and 've. All without any add-ons with other posters here this sounds like it might be a cool addition to the...... Was still some ceremony needed at least implement everything in fast design microsoft what I meant to say is you! Collectively rally around a single UI library for our web site ) not quite true ; things Gallery... A bonus, it 's not about Sciter but rather discussion of web is! And a shame they do n't really like the dream of 2005. it 's like a while I! < my-homebrew-dropdown > Model-View-ViewModel ( MVVM ), eventually built their own UI components sign up leave! Sketch out a few different tries of that final execution is all they need of. They seem to work in desktop Nightly disable FAST Startup labels,,! With some vanilla JS as needed work in practice a pretty quick connection with the lit-html TypeScript and Code! Gwt because in my mind it was the future of reusability that pop your... Mainly develop using asp.net Core, with some vanilla JS as needed you to. Tries of that final execution W3C and have the same expectations to work desktop. To browse this site uses cookies for analytics, personalized content and ads 's a.
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